One or two meals a day?

[Ruby Red]

Okay, I know most boxers love their food but Ruby is always looking for food even after her dinner! She is fed raw mostly, but some days kibble. I feed her twice a day, at such a level whereby she is currently maintaining her weight. Now, I’ve come across this article and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on it?

From the desk of Mogens Eliasen, for immediate release
This article may be reprinted without further permission when brought in its entirety, including the bio the end. June 8, 2003

Why your dogs needs to fill its stomach on a regular basis
Most dog owners, who love their dogs, try to extend as much TLC to them as they can. However, when they assume that what is good for them is also good for the dog, they make some terrible mistakes…. Dog do not have monkey stomachs!

Some anatomic facts to consider…
A dog stomach is elastic, like an accordion. When empty, it folds to what almost appears to be an intestine. When it gets filled, it can contain as much as 7-8% of the dog's body weight! (For a human weighing 120 pounds, this would correspond to eating 10 pounds in one meal - but a human stomach is a bag with almost no elasticity - it simply cannot do more than about 10% of this…) Further, the dog's stomach is full of small glands that produce digestive enzymes. Those glands start to work when they get in contact with food. This will happen for some of them immediately as the dog gets some food in the stomach, but, because of the folding nature of the stomach, most of those glands do not get to touch food, unless the stomach gets filled so that all the folds are stretched out! An amazing consequence of this is that the dog's digestion process is more efficient when it gets a large meal! While it still might digest a certain fraction of a small meal, that fraction will be much larger for a larger meal! Dogs that are being fed almost exclusively "full meals" (= meals that fill the stomach), generally need some 20-30% less food than dogs that are being fed many smaller meals. (This is exactly the opposite of what would be true for a human stomach...)

The ultimate carnivore experience
Dogs, like other carnivores, do not rely on having food available all the time. Infact, when they have a full stomach or recently had one, they don't even bother looking to the side of a possible prey. Instead, they feed very irregularly - when food is available, and they have hunting success. At such times, they gorge and fill themselves - and there is no discussion possible that they thoroughly enjoy doingthat! Many people also experience that, when they have difficulty getting the dog to eat something new, a simple way to get it to eat it is to first give it a little of what you know they like - then it will eat almost anything after that to fill the stomach! This illustrates that filling the stomach is more important to a dog than just "getting a little bite". Yet, most domestic dogs never get to experience this…

Keeping the dog constantly starving…
Few dog owners want to starve their dog or to keep it constantly hungry.
Nevertheless, this is what most people end up doing when they feed their dog
multiple daily meals, assuming that this is just as good for a dog as it is for a
human. An adult dog needs an amount of food in average per day that is about 2-3% of its body weight. Considering that it takes 6-8% to fill the stomach, there is just no way the average dog will ever get to experience the satisfying fulfillment of having a full stomach… With 2-3 small meals per day, it will remain very far from that objective!

Changing the feeding pattern
Now, you cannot just start letting a dog fill its stomach, cold turkey, if it has never been used to this. It would be dangerous (risk of bloat because the muscle tissue is far too weak from never having been exercised). Doing it with kibble is, of course, completely out of the question too - it is far too concentrated. Also, when you ultimately feed your dog as much as it wants in one meal, you cannot feed it more than 3-4 meals per week! However, when you do this, you will see the "food searching" behavior disappear, and you will see your dog gain weight if it is too skinny and lose weight if it is too fat. You have an important hurdle to overcome before you can safely let you dog eat full meals 3-4 times a week - in addition to your own human-based emotions: You must train the stomach muscles to handle the greater volume of a meal. It is like training a broken leg for skiing after getting the cast off... Do it gradually over a period of at least 3 months, preferably 6. (Please refer to my article on Conditioning if you need help with this.)

I know the concept of feeding only 3-4 times per week sounds brutal - but seriously: it isn't. My dogs have been fed this way for more than 30 years, and I tell you: they enjoy their meals!!! But they also enjoy the time between the meals. I have never had a problem with weight - it regulates itself on an individual basis. I have helped literally hundreds of my students to do the same, and they all report the same great results.... not a single exception!
Mogens Eliasen
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Mogens Eliasen holds a Ph.D. level degree in Chemistry from Århus University, Denmark and has 30+ years of experience working with dogs, dog owners, dog trainers, and holistic veterinarians as a coach, lecturer, and education system developer. He publishes a free newsletter "The Peeing Post" containinglots of tips and advice on dog problems of all kinds, particularly about training, behavioral problems, feeding, and health care.
For more information about Mogens Eliasen, including links to other articles he has published, please senda short e-mail to contact@k9joy.com.

[/QUOTE]
The Peeing Post is an interesting read if you want to subscribe to it.

[nikita&memo]

Interesting, i don't know if i'm comfortable with that. We raw feed 2 meals per day carefully portioned. I've heard though that senior dogs should be eating only once a day. Curious too on everyone elses thoughts....

[Doreen]

I don't know about that one either.... I am uncomfortable with the idea of not feeding a dog but only 3-4 days a week. Especially since Rex was starved when he was left on the streets.

[Ron]

interesting read.

[KeeperBoy]

One large meal of kibble could create bloat. Personally, I'm not really believe feeding twice a day could hurt a dog. My understanding is that raw goes through the system quickly, so the stomach will be empty for the next meal.

[Spyglass Sally]

Although it's okay (sometimes even desirable) to fast your dog for a day or two, Dr. Pitcairn writes that "It's okay to feed a healthy dog once or twice a day, or even more often."

Not only do I have a lot of trust in Dr. Pitcairn, I frankly doubt the conclusion of the article you refer to because the logic seems flawed to me.

First of all, about the digestion that starts in the stomach, he states, "Further, the dog's stomach is full of small glands that produce digestive enzymes. Those glands start to work when they get in contact with food. This will happen for some of them immediately as the dog gets some food in the stomach, but, because of the folding nature of the stomach, most of those glands do not get to touch food, unless the stomach gets filled so that all the folds are stretched out!"

The dog's stomach is a sac-like structure designed to store large volumes of food and begin the digestive process. On the interior surface of the stomach is a series of folds called gastric folds which function to help grind and digest food. So it's churning around all the time - not just statically sitting there with food that may or may not touch glands. The folds may allow the stomach to expand to accommodate various amounts of food but I can't find anywhere that unless they are all expanded the stomach can't digest the food as well.

Likewise, I find hard to believe his conclusion "An amazing consequence of this is that the dog's digestion process is more efficient when it gets a large meal! While it still might digest a certain fraction of a small meal, that fraction will be much larger for a larger meal! Dogs that are being fed almost exclusively "full meals" (= meals that fill the stomach), generally need some 20-30% less food than dogs that are being fed many smaller meals." That's a pretty bold claim and I'd like to see a reference on it.

The food is coming into contact with the amount of acid & enzymes it needs (based on volume of food consumed and the amount of stomach filled). I don't see where more food filling more stomach is more efficient or results in a larger fraction of the food being digested - just more volume of food being processed. The production of digestive enzymes and acids is based on many things, including how much food is being digested. So if there's more food, more will be produced, but if there's less needed, less will be produced. Nature doesn't waste precious resources making enzymes it doesn't need.

When it comes to increasing the efficiency of digestion in dogs, what I do read and believe because it makes sense and has been demonstrated, is "A critical factor in influencing a dogs digestive efficiency is the presence of adequate levels of various digestive enzymes specifically designed to metaboliize proteins, carbohydrates and lipids." This is why it's been suggested on various threads to supplement digestive enzymes to dogs who's gut is not functioning properly, as evidenced by diarrhea, colitis or other problems.

Well I guess that's a long answer but the short one would be we feed Buddy usually twice a day, but sometime (like today) he's gotten some chicken backs or something extra just because he's spoiled rotten.

[daisy'smom]

Interesting, but I don't think I could only feed that way. I do 2 times a day.

[AussieGirl]

I don't know about this one, maybe I humanize it too much but I like the two feedings a day. I did see they didn't recommend it with kibble, and I have read of "extreme" raw feeders who will I guess mimic the feeding habbits in the wild and give their dogs a whole carcass and then not feed them for a few days, they claim the dogs are not interested in food and if it is offered to them they will refuse it - not something that appeals to me. I think I did read on Raw Meaty Bones (Dr Lonsdale) something about fasting......found it

Healthy dogs benefit from one or two days fasting each week. Research shows that slim dogs (and people) tend to be healthier and live longer. Sick and elderly dogs and growing puppies should not be fasted.

Some raw feeders actually recommend twice day feedings as it is digested so much faster than commercial foods, I have also been told by a few breeders that Boxers need to be fed twice daily .
I will stick to my twice a day feedings it's working for us .

[Doreen]

Originally Posted by AussieGirl

I don't know about this one, maybe I humanize it too much but I like the two feedings a day. I did see they didn't recommend it with kibble, and I have read of "extreme" raw feeders who will I guess mimic the feeding habbits in the wild and give their dogs a whole carcass and then not feed them for a few days, they claim the dogs are not interested in food and if it is offered to them they will refuse it - not something that appeals to me. I think I did read on Raw Meaty Bones (Dr Lonsdale) something about fasting......found it



Some raw feeders actually recommend twice day feedings as it is digested so much faster than commercial foods, I have also been told by a few breeders that Boxers need to be fed twice daily .
I will stick to my twice a day feedings it's working for us .

Do you guys think it is ok that I still feed Rex 3 times a day. Because I tried giving him more twice a day, but he tended to show the indention of all of his ribs more when I did that. I could actually place a finger deeply beside each rib. I don't know why, but that is what happens to him. I will try again someday since he is on raw now. But I am waiting for him to really pack on a few more lbs. first. He is looking lots better in the rib area to me, even though I haven't had him weighed since his last vet visit. I also think he got so much more exercise in the summer months and will most likely put on some winter weight in a couple months.

[AussieGirl]

Originally Posted by Doreen

Do you guys think it is ok that I still feed Rex 3 times a day. Because I tried giving him more twice a day, but he tended to show the indention of all of his ribs more when I did that. I could actually place a finger deeply beside each rib. I don't know why, but that is what happens to him. I will try again someday since he is on raw now. But I am waiting for him to really pack on a few more lbs. first. He is looking lots better in the rib area to me, even though I haven't had him weighed since his last vet visit. I also think he got so much more exercise in the summer months and will most likely put on some winter weight in a couple months.

If thats what works best for him and you're happy to do it - I don't see a problem, heaps of adult Boxers are fed threee times a day. Also noticed alot of owners with colitis dogs said they had better results when feeding three times a day - I don't believe in "one size fits all" they are all different IMO