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11-18-2009, 04:17 PM
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#1 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,335
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About titers
To remove this ad please Register Here's the convo I will have again with my vet this year... help me out here!
Andrea: I want to titer for parvo, distemper and rabies. Dr. Oldschool: Titers are bad. They are expensive. Even if they test high enough, there is nothing to say that immunity will be the same tomorrow. You must titer for all the elements of the DHPP. We won't titer for rabies. Andrea: I feel that only parvo and lepto are key immunities for my two at this point. I am comfortable with a titer. Regarding the rabies, there is a titer for this although it is more expensive. Our county will accept a rabies titer instead of a booster. Dr. Oldschool: Fine, but if they don't titer high enough for something we have to order the limited shot just for you and it's more expensive. Plus you already paid for the titer. Andrea: FINE!!! Dr. Oldschool: I'm still not happy about the rabies. What do you tell your vet if you titer?
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Andrea & Keepers (and Boo) |
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11-18-2009, 04:34 PM
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#2 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,940
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Ha, I am going to have to go through a similar thing with Ruby too, reduced vaccines are so new here - I'm not looking forward to it. I think I am just going to go in and be stubborn, explain I am my pets advocate and feel this is right, I know the cost will be more but am okay with paying more therfore it is not an issue. You may not be happy with it but I am....
I did find a site that you can look up Holistic vets if you are interested, if I had one near me I would go there for shots and titers to avoid the conversation I know I am going to have with the vet. Here are the ones I found in Michigan from American Holistic Verterinary Medical Association, obviously I cannot advise how good they are but thought you may like to have a look at them (over here it is mainly Holistic vets have already been doing reduced vaccines and titre testing). THOMAS BANKSTAHL , DVM PARKWAY SMALL ANIMAL EXOTIC HOSPITAL 39321 GARFIELD CLINTON TWP , MI 48038 Phone: 586-416-8800 Fax: 586-416-8801 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) CH WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EXOTIC AVIAN parkway-animal-hospital.com ERIN BANNINK , DVM DIPLOMAT ACVIM OAKLAND VETERINARY REFERRAL SERVICES 1400 TELEGRAPH ROAD BLOOMFIELD HILLS , MI 48302 Phone: 248-334-6877 Fax: 248-334-3693 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) CH CM NU WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL ovrs.com STEVEN BARTA , DVM VETERINARY GENERAL 53217 HAYES ROAD SHELBY TOWNSHIP , MI 48315 Phone: 586-992-3810 Fax: 586-992-3946 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC ACSU Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL www.veterinarygeneral.com PATRICIA BIGWOOD , DVM BS MS EAST DETROIT ANIMAL HOSPITAL 24506 GRATIOT AVE EAST POINTE , MI 48021 Phone: 586-776-5011 Fax: 586-776-0725 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(CHI) CH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL GRACE CHANG , DVM SOUTHFIELD VETERINARY HOSPITAL 24130 W 10 MILE RD SOUTHFIELD , MI 48033 Phone: 248-356-0822 Fax: 248-356-0826 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC(IVAS) CH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL HOUSE CALLS CAROL GALKA , DVM COMPANION ANIMAL CARE CENTER 1486 EAST CARO RD. CARO , MI 48723 Phone: 989-673-5740 Fax: 989-673-3754 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(CHI) BF CH CN CM GT HMTX NU WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL www.drgalka.com EUGENE GAVIN , DVM SOUTH CROSSING VETERINARY CENTER 1679 68TH STREET SE SUITE A CALEDONIA , MI 49316-7348 Phone: 616-554-0400 Fax: 616-554-0045 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) BF CH CR CN CM H NU WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EQUINE www.southcrossingvet.com KARLA GORMAN , DVM SHELDON VETERINARY HOSPITAL 9460 SHELDON ROAD PLYMOUTH , MI 48170 Phone: 734-454-5580 Fax: 734-454-5582 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) BF CN CM GT H NU WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL PAMELA GRAVES , DVM CVSMT JENSEN'S ANIMAL HOSPTIAL 4041 CHARLEVOIX PETOSKEY , MI 49770 Phone: 231-347-8775 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AK CR CR(AVCA) CN Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EQUINE EXOTIC AVIAN www.jensensanimalhospital.com LYLE KOWALSKI , DVM CVA DAVISON VETERINARY HOSPITAL 1510 CUMMINGS RD DAVISON , MI 48423 Phone: 810-653-4108 Fax: 810-653-4109 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) CH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL AVIAN NICOLE LEVEQUE , DVM D'ADAMO VETERINARY HOSPITAL 30000 JOY ROAD LIVONIA , MI 48150 Phone: 734-421-1800 Fax: 734-421-4540 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) CM Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL dadamoveterinary.com MARY LINDAMOOD , DVM HOWELL ANIMAL HOSPITAL P.O. BOX 103 215 E. HIGHLAND HOWELL , MI 48844 Phone: 517-546-1340 Fax: 517-546-1168 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) CR CR (HOWC) CN Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EQUINE LISA MELLING , DVM BEST FRIENDS PET WELLNESS P.O. BOX 459 WILLIS , MI 48191 Phone: 734-218-0457 Fax: 734-961-4035 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) CM HC NU MA Other = Behavior Consultation. Alternative & traditional in-home vet care for small animals, sheep & goats in 24 ft mobile vet clinic. Special emphasis on wellness through high quality nutrition & exercise. Trad includes surgery, vaccines & titer tests Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL FARM HOUSE CALLS www.BestFriendsPetWellness.com HEIDI MIER , DVM DR. HEIDI MIER, PLLC P.O.BOX 701197 PLYMOUTH , MI 48170 Phone: 734-929-6539 Fax: 734-929-6632 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(CHI) CH CM HMTX NU WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EQUINE EXOTIC HOUSE CALLS KIMBERLY MILLER , DVM BS ANN ARBOR CAT CLINIC 3690 PACKARD ROAD ANN ARBOR , MI 48108 Phone: 734-973-9090 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL www.annarborcatclinic.com SUSAN MYERS , DVM CVA WEST MICHIGAN VETERINARY SERVICE 100 NORTH 68TH AVE COOPERSVILLE , MI 49404-9704 Phone: 616-837-8151 Fax: 616-837-7853 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) BF CM Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EQUINE FARM ANNE RICE , DVM BS THE VISITING VET .PO. BOX 373 WILLIANSTON , MI 48895 Phone: 517-655-3479 Fax: 517-655-9569 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) BF CH CM GT NAET NU REIKI WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL HOUSE CALLS JOHN SIMON , DVM WOODSIDE ANIMAL CLINIC 27452 WOODWARD AVE ROYAL OAK , MI 48067 Phone: 248-545-6630 Fax: 248-545-7979 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) AC AC(IVAS) BF CH CR CR(AVCA) CN CT CM GT H HMTX NU MT PMT WH LELECTRO CRYSTAL REBALANCING, ACUSCOPE, INFRATONIC THERAPY, BIOFEEDBACK-LIFE SYSTEM Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EXOTIC AVIAN www.doc4pets.com JOHN SMITH , DVM PETCARE ANIMAL CLINIC 2894 WASHTENAW YPSILANTI , MI 48197 Phone: 734-434-9055 Fax: 734-434-9066 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) CN CM NU WH BEHAVIOR Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL EQUINE HOUSE CALLS www.dogdoctor.us CHARLINE WILSON , DVM 10313 MORSE LAKE AVENUE ALTO , MI 49302 Phone: 616-891-7737 Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference) BF CM GT H EAV NU MT PMT WH Practice Preferences: SMALL ANIMAL
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11-18-2009, 04:45 PM
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#3 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,335
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We will likely be seeing a holistic vet soon, in addition to our old vet. I like having a relationship with the vet we have now because 1. he's close, 2. he's nice, 3. it's easy to get an appointment. In theory, his titers won't be any more expensive than the holistic vet's. The problem I think I might run in to is that our "normal" vet won't have or will want to charge more for a limited vaccine.
All the holistic vets are further away and take months to get an appointment with. I'm actually going to have an appointment with a holistic DVM this winter to talk about Boo's knee problem. I love the AHVMA though, they are such a great resource and are slowly gaining exposure.
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Andrea & Keepers (and Boo) |
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11-18-2009, 05:57 PM
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#4 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Holland MI
Posts: 1,827
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Titer testing is only half the story in determining immunity. They will test for antibodies (made via humoral immunity and B cells) but there is also cellular immunity which can't be tested for by titers. In cell mediated immunity T cells respond to foreign invaders and, after destroying them, end up with what is called memory. Next time we are infected by the same virus, certain T cells remember seeing it before and can respond quicker and more explosively. This is the basis behind vaccination for certain diseases.
Bottom line:
Although a virus may be capable of replicating in a dog whose antibody titers have decreased, memory B and T cells should provide anamnestic (secondary) humoral and cell-mediated immune response that limits replication and prevents disease... Studies...have clearly demonstrated that antibodies to the core vaccine viruses may persist in the absence of re-vaccination.Personally, I wouldn't feel like you need to convince your vet of anything. He works for you. You tell him what you want or don't want. If he finds that unacceptable, he can always ask you to find another vet. But I understand the pressure you feel. Our vet has never said anything contrary to us but there is that "elephant in the room" that I'm not entirely comfortable with either. I just don't engage him in a debate on it because I figure there will be no resolution. However, since I am new to this and not sure if there's something I'm missing, I also want to take Buddy to a holistic vet and develop a rapport there in case we have problems at some point. Don't know if you already know who you want to go to, but if you are looking for a holistic vet in Michigan, the one we're going to see in December is Holistic Veterinary Options in Ada. Dr. Pamela Ditonto studied with Dr. Pitcairn. I've yet to meet her so I can't say too much about her. But I did have a nice chat with her assistant when I made the appointment and it was like music to my ears. She was saying they believe nutrition is the foundation for health, they don't do vaccines (except for rabies because it's required in Michigan) and a bunch of other things that sounded very congruent with the reading I've done. I'm looking forward to meeting her. Buddy's never had any vaccine but rabies and I want to ask her if we should do titers, among other questions.
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11-18-2009, 06:05 PM
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#5 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,335
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Honestly, if we didn't spend so much time at the dog training clubs in our area I might now even worry about titers, my two have had plenty of vaccines. I just worry because trials are nasty.
I've heard Dr. Pitcairn's class is pretty intense. Did you have a hard time getting a well visit? The holistic vets in our area are so hard to get into! I just hate that everything at our old vet is black and white. The guy, bless his soul, doesn't really think on his own, just does as they said at vet school.
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Andrea & Keepers (and Boo) |
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11-18-2009, 06:16 PM
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#6 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Holland MI
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
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11-18-2009, 09:12 PM
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#7 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 3,194
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OK... I'm not so well educated on all of this, but what is Titers?
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11-18-2009, 09:24 PM
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#8 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,335
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A titer is a blood test to determine your (your in this case your dog's) immunity to something. So when my two are due for shots we will draw blood and it will be sent away (to Michigan State) where they will determine what type of antibodies exist in their blood for the given thing, say distemper. If they test about a certain level they are considered protected, below that level it is suggested they revaccinate (although Sally said that any antibodies show protection, the vet will give you a cut off number that is considered high enough).
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Andrea & Keepers (and Boo) |
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11-18-2009, 09:25 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
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11-18-2009, 09:35 PM
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#10 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,335
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Yep, it's the same thing. I'm just so leery of vaccines. Especially because I don't know Keepers' history.
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