Whip Worm and Probiotics

Jewels · 01-14-2010, 08:44 PM

Hi, I am new to this site but our puppy Daisy Mae is almost 10 months old and was diagnosed with whip worm about 6 weeks ago; we have given her 2 of the 3 doses of medicine from the vet. We had to treat both dogs initially, then 3 weeks later and then 3 months later....3 months is not until the end of February. My poor baby has had bad diarrhea since the beginning of November. We switched her food because she started having many of the symptoms that are common with food allergies. (Side note she had SO many problems with ear infections, yeast infections and skin itches etc and treated with numerous antibiotics for each infection). We switched her to a hypoallergenic food and it has been about 6 weeks...so too early to tell if she has any allergies to this food. Anyways there has only been a few things that seem to help her at all...she was on a low res. food from the vet initially and that seemed to help and then her stool became more mushy then watery. She was then treated for a respiratory infection 2 weeks ago and she was given baytril (I think), which the vet said has been proven to help boxers with colitis and it did. Her stool was great while she was on that antibiotic and 3 days after she went off of it her stool became loose and now it is back to water-like. I talked to the vet about numerous options such as probiotics and more holistic approaches and I just don't know what else to do. She can't have her 3rd and final treatment for the worms until the end of February and I really don't want her to have diarrhea for the next 6 weeks...her poor bum must hurt. We started her on a probiotic today from the vet and she is hoping this will help balance her system until she can have the last worming treatment. Evidently these are very hard to get rid of and she is showing the same symptoms when she was diagnosed. I honestly believe she is allergic to something or she is lacking something to cause the loose stool. Does anyone have any advice at all? She is eating, drinking, playing and still very active but she has the worst diarrhea. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!

daisy'smom · 01-14-2010, 10:02 PM

I have never dealt with your problems but others on this forum have. I am sure you will get some helpful advice.

Doreen · 01-14-2010, 11:13 PM

My dog Rex has Boxer colitis.... he has been through the ringer with the severe diarrhea also. Now, I haven't had a dog with whip worms since I was a kid, so I don't know anything about that anymore... but for the colitis, I had taken Rex to an internist. I did 2 things. Put Rex on a raw food diet as many do here, but mine is more modified than they do (just because I can't stand the thought of all that raw meat, LOL) plus Rex will be on Baytril for 3 months. This internist said studies from Cornell University show that they found a short dosage of Baytril is not enough to kill the overgrown E Coli and found they need a 3 month continuous once a day dosage. Rex still has another 10 days or so left to his 3 months and so far, he no longer has diarrhea but nice solid poop! I also have him on something bought online from a place called The Honest Kitchen. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/preference/
I add this to his raw ground turkey, along with rice... all equal portions..... (Rex eats 3 times a day).

These are the things that are working for me so far.... of course I won't know for sure until another 10 days once he is off the Baytril to be sure, but I am pretty confident we got it under control now. I was at my wits end already until I came here and got lots of information about different things to try for the colitis.... A little from this one... a little from that one, LOL.... all helped get Rex's diet to work for him.

Rex was also on low residue, Vet formula dog food too, but that didn't work for him either. I also tried many different brands that included venison... etc... he still cannot handle kibble, even the holistic one that I have my other dog on. So I am sticking to the raw.... I don't want to mess it up for Rex since he is doing so well!!!!

I hope you can get your pups diarrhea under control. I know how bad you feel!
You will get lots of help from these nice people!

AussieGirl · 01-15-2010, 01:15 AM

Hi and

.
You sound as though you have had a bit of a rough time with your girl - so sorry.
I have never had to deal with whipworm so I can't give you any personal experience with it but I do agree that she should have probiotics especially while she is on antibiotics (they kill off the "good stuff" too), some people will give them all the time (not just when on antibiotics) to keep their systems in good shape (which will enable them to cope with stresses including illness better). Sally is a wealth of info on natural suppliments etc I'm sure she will chime in and will be able to explain it for you (I'm hopeless lol)

.

Quote:

We switched her food because she started having many of the symptoms that are common with food allergies. (Side note she had SO many problems with ear infections, yeast infections and skin itches etc and treated with numerous antibiotics for each infection).

Those symptoms def sound like allergies to me, antibiotics would have only masked the symptoms not get rid of the cause of them. Here is a good link to Canine Food Allergies . Have you considered a RAW diet? You have more control over what your dog eats so you can completely cut out grains, corn and other things that dogs tend to have allergies to, it can also help Colitis sufferers (not all - but most). There are also good quality dog foods made with allergy sufferers in mind like California Natural - they generally have very limited ingredients in them, there was another brand I just cant think of ...... I think it was Natural Balance Fish and Sweet Potato.
Here are a few links to some threads we've had on the Hub on food allergies and colitis (I believe there are more on the Hub I just don't have the time to find them at the moment - my skin kids are getting rowdy, have to get them dinner lol. Use the "search" feature on the forum to look up "colitis" and "food allergies" or just "allergies" and see if there is anything already there that may be helpful

)

Boxer Colitis Anyone?
Nice Poop!
Help Allergies and Diet
Stools ever firm up with Colitis?

AussieGirl · 01-15-2010, 05:26 AM

I've been having a little look around for whipworm info and found this

Quote:

As whipworms can cause health problems in dogs such as chronic colitis and anemia, it is important to eradicate the worms without delay. The best course of action is for dogs to receive conventional deworming treatment under veterinary supervision.

found here. So the two may very well be linked

I suggest you read through the whole article as it suggests supplements to support the dogs system while it recovers.

Spyglass Sally · 01-15-2010, 06:02 AM

Welcome to BH, Jewels. Sorry your little girl is not feeling well. It sounds like her problems are, in general, a run down immune system. According to Dr. Pitcairn, mature but run down animals that are unhealthy and susceptible to parasites inside (roundworms, tapeworms, hookworms, whipworms) and out (fleas, ticks, lice). That, coupled with frequent infections, yeast overgrowth, allergies and diarrhea make me feel that she really needs help with general immune boosters as much or more than chasing after every manifestation of the underlying problem.

"Dis-ease" begins when the body is either not absorbing the nutrients it needs to maintain the immune system or is failing to expel excess toxins and/or diseased cells which then keep the immune system from doing its job. What you want to do is be sure you are both giving Daisy Mae the nutrients she needs, and reducing exposure to toxins.

I agree with everyone else that she needs probiotics -I would not skimp on them (either in dose or quality) and be sure you use a good brand. I don't know what your vet gave you, but here are some specific bacteria needed and why:

Bifidobacterium lactis: a friendly bacteria often found in yogurt that is known to help stimulate immune responses.
Bifidobacterium animalis: a unique bacteria that promotes optimal health and protection within the digestive tract.
Lactobacillus acidophilus: guards the health of your pet’s entire digestive tract.
Bifidobacterium longum: keeps your pet’s digestive system running smoothly, and helps enhance their immune system.
Bifidobacterium bifidum: helps promote a healthy balance of flora in your pet’s intestine. What's more, this organism is especially helpful for enhancing immune response.
Lactobacillus casei: works with other helpful organisms, and helps to encourage the growth of other "good" bacteria.
Lactobacillus plantarum: helps to ensure that the nutrients in vitamins and supplements are getting to your pet’s cells.

You might not have all of them, but I hope what you have has many of them. The antibiotics are killing off the good bacteria which promotes diarrhea and also further compromises her immune system since much of her immune system (as in humans) is in the gut.

I also agree with the others here that going to a least processed diet as you can (like raw, or The Honest Kitchen) is best. Not only will that be more nutritious, and naturally have more beneficial bacteria and enzymes, but it will not contain artificial preservatives, colors, etc that are contributing to Daisy Mae's overall toxic load and stress. Your vet, btw, will probably not be very supportive of a raw diet for a variety of reasons, which have nothing to do with superiority of the diet. You can find more info about commercial and homemade petfood here. They are selling a cookbook, which you may or may not want, but the info is good.

Along that line, many people forget about what kind of water their dog drinks. I would recommend filtered, spring or other non-chlorinated or fluoride treated water.

It takes time to get healthy naturally. Pills often work quickly because they basically suppress or cover up the symptom. Kinda like sticking a cork in your nose if you have a cold. Your nose stops running, but you're far from cured. All you've done is stop your body's attempt to rid itself of toxins. Switching to a good diet and food, along with supplementing with probiotics will give Daisy Mae the raw materials her immune system needs to become strong from the inside out. Patience and persistence is the key.

Buddy hasn't had whipworms but like most dogs here, he's dealt with a struggling immune system sometimes. As have the people

. The underlying principles are the same - support your innate ability to heal utilizing good nutrition and removal of toxins.

We'll be happy to share what we can and hope it's helpful to you. Welcome again to the forum and feel free to ask us questions!

Jewels · 01-15-2010, 02:18 PM

Thank you so much for all of this information! I have briefly looked into the cooking at home and raw food diets so I will read all of the information you have all posted. Thank you also for the probiotic and immune systems tips! I will look into all of these websites and forums. This gives me some great things to read up and research. We are determined to get our little girl healthy with good poop! LOL

I also wanted to know if any of you have had allergy tests run...if so who does them? A normal vet or do I need to find a hollistic vet?

Thank you again soooo much for all of this information, I will have a busy weekend reading up on this!

KeeperBoy · 01-15-2010, 03:21 PM

I haven't heard many good things about allergy testing. Usually you will have to go to s vet specializing in skin or allergy issues to get one done. They are costly and not as accurate as you would think. A holistic vet could do muscle testing for allergies, but that has mixed reviews also.

With Keepers' allergies, we had the best luck with an elimination diet (raw).

Spyglass Sally · 01-15-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewels

I also wanted to know if any of you have had allergy tests run...if so who does them? A normal vet or do I need to find a hollistic vet?

What you do regarding allergies sort of depends on what paradigm you buy into. Conventional medicine says allergies are caused by a strong reaction of the immune system to something - food, pollen, mold, etc. - and if you're unlucky you have a reaction to that. The answer is to either avoid that item, or get shots to desensitize your immune system. Though that is partly true, it doesn't really answer why allergies can seem to appear for no particular reason and disappear later on. It also avoids looking at what be the long term consequences of desensitizing your immune system. The conventional approach may also utilize cortisone which treat the inflammation without addressing the cause.

A more holistic approach would be to start with the premise that the allergy isn't the root problem - it's only a symptom which flares up when the body becomes sensitized to the allergen. This is usually secondary to the build up of toxicity that has affected the immune system and maybe influenced by genetics, environment or acquired weakness. The goal is to help the body detoxify and support the immune system's own efforts to protect the body, not just to treat/suppress the symptom.

Ideally, the inflammation from encountering the unwanted protein will be brief but in an unhealthy body the inflammation grows into something more visible and bothersome.

According to Dr. Goldstein, the use of allergy shots "involves administering high doses of the allergen to which there's an allergy in order to exhaust the appropriate antibody's ability to react to it. My question is: Would you rather have your immune system be sensitive or desensitive?" He says he has seen dogs with cancer who have a medical history of "successful desensitization" for allergies. He believes these are related.

You can read more about his approach to allergies here. I'm not saying it's the best approach for you - that's for you to decide. But at least this way you can compare various treatment options and decide which is more compatible with your paradigm or view of health.

Ruby Red · 01-15-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewels

I also wanted to know if any of you have had allergy tests run...if so who does them? A normal vet or do I need to find a hollistic vet?

Hi there Julie, I had Jakey allergy tested, your normal vet is able to do it as it is just a simple blood test. Jakey’s blood was then sent out to this company http://www.vetallergy.com/pages/petowners.html for analysis and a report sent back to us highlighting areas where he showed up various sensitivities.

For us, the results were mixed, Jakey showed up very high positive readings to certain foods as well as many environmental factors – fungi, house dust, weeds, trees, etc. Following the allergy test, we put Jakey on hypersensitisation injections for nearly 2 years as our vet recommended it and we didn’t know any better. They made no difference to his condition at all. I came to the conclusion myself that the immune system was the place to start with all this, and following on from the amazing advice I was given on post from others,especially Sally [I really can’t thank you enough and the link above is brilliant reading for me too!], I did my own research and made contact with a lady called Marina Zacharias at this website http://www.naturalrearing.com/coda/index.html#landing [If you have time, read her articles – she really makes so much sense on so many things]. Any rate, after much e-mailing, this is what she has prescribed for Jakey and her rationale behind it:

Quote:

Tibetan allergy support - which will help the root causes of why the body is having reactions in the first place by helping to rebalance the immune and adrenal systems;

AllerDMG this formula decreases the histamines and inflammation as well as helping the immune system. The adrenals are often stressed out and weak with this problem and therefore can't keep up with the cortisol levels demanded by the body so the other remedy we give is called

Beta Sitosterol - This is made from plant extracts so it will help the body rebuild the cortisone supply and at the same time decreasing inflammation. I am using this one now instead of the Beta thym as I have found it to be more effective. These remedies are not currently listed on my site.

Like Dr Goldstein she also recommends the use of steroids to start off with in order to

Quote:

get the circulating hormone back to where the body needs it so it gives the adrenals/immune system a break so it has time to heal with the remedies. Then very slowly we can reduce the amount of cortisone given as the adrenals will be able to compensate and usually able to come off the steroids completely. However is a small amount is needed then it is like giving hormone replacement therapy as we are giving exactly what the body cannot produce and so no long term problems occur.

She also recommended the following for his ear specifically:

Quote:

Phytosceptic - This is herbal but it is not harsh or drying like some formulas. It is anti fungal; bacterial and microbial and is very
effective.

Internally I also give a Chinese herb called Picrorrhiza -This helps the body to truly help to kill the yeast infection from the inside out.

I really would recommend you get in contact with her as opposed to going down the route of allergy testing etc., and I speak from having been there and done it all. I can only wish you all the luck, I do know just how frustrating all this is believe me and I do empathise totally. It’s so hard to know what to do for the best sometimes and it’s so bewildering too. This is the best help/advice I can give you; this and as others have said, a raw natural diet – there are some great threads on this forum that Aussiegirl has written up for us, take a look them and don’t be afraid to ask questions if you don’t understand – I’m always doing it I drive everyone nuts with them!!