Color that is more appealing in the Show Ring?

[AussieGirl]

For me it is all about breeding. When breeding it should be done to better the breed. Breeding with white boxers does nothing to imporove the breed therefore should not be done! I am not saying they should be put down, never stated that. White Boxers do not meet the breed standard as set by the KC's, therefore they cannot enter the conformation ring, the conformation ring is a way as I stated to showcase breeding stock, no responsible breeder would breed a white boxer therefore no I do not feel they should be in the conformation ring.

Conformation shows, also referred to as breed shows, are a kind of dog show in which a judge familiar with a specific dog breed evaluates individual purebred dogs for how well the dogs conform to the established breed type for their breed, as described in a breed's individual breed standard.

So what is the difference?

There is a difference, in the health of the offspring and future pups further on in the lines.
I have to go out so I don't have time to get into it more at the moment, I'll be back latter to add to it though.

[whitedaisy]

Originally Posted by daisy'smom

As for breeding, correct me if I am wrong but I understand that if you breed 2 flashy boxers you will get the same number of white pups that you would get if you breed a white with a plain. So what is the difference?

Actually, if you breed a white and a plain you will get NO white pups at all. NONE.

We love our white pups and they are great pets, but they don't belong in the conformation ring and as of now, still don't have any place in a breeding program. But they are perfectly lovable.

[AussieGirl]

I want to point out that white boxers are not the only ones with a limited registration any colour pup that does not meet the breed standard is issued with limited registration and this is done to try and preserve the breed standard. The Boxer Clubs and it's registered members/breeders have the responsibility to not just maintain but improve the standard of the dogs being produced, they are the "care takers" of the breed and it's future and limited registration is a way that they are trying to do this.

Why White Boxers Should Never Be Bred

Brindle Pups Limited Register

[Boxer100]

Originally Posted by daisy'smom

I totally agree with Missi on this. By not letting them compete and only giving them "limited" registration the message is that they are "less than." The practice of euthanasia of white pups although not as common as it use to be is still being done by some breeders.

The breeders that euthanize white boxers should also be euthanized because killing an innocent animal just because of colour is just plain wrong. These breeders who euthanize white boxers bring nothing good to humanity. I agree that white boxers should not be purposefully bred to some extent like some of you said, but what if in the litter there is a white boxer who is perfectly healthy? Why someone should not be able to show him? Just because he is white? I also know your response, letting white boxers compete will encourage breeders breeding more white boxers but even this can be controlled by registries like CKC and AKC. CKC and AKC could at least make a separate category for white boxer showing. I would also like to know how many white boxers are born deaf or blind? What is the percentage because I think it has been blown out of proportion.

[daisy'smom]

Originally Posted by Boxer100

The breeders that euthanize white boxers should also be euthanized because killing an innocent animal just because of colour is just plain wrong. These breeders who euthanize white boxers bring nothing good to humanity. I agree that white boxers should not be purposefully bred to some extent like some of you said, but what if in the litter there is a white boxer who is perfectly healthy? Why someone should not be able to show him? Just because he is white? I also know your response, letting white boxers compete will encourage breeders breeding more white boxers but even this can be controlled by registries like CKC and AKC. CKC and AKC could at least make a separate category for white boxer showing. I would also like to know how many white boxers are born deaf or blind? What is the percentage because I think it has been blown out of proportion.

I think I probably feel strongly about the White Boxer controversy because of Georgie. Georgie was dumped at the dog pound when she was 8 weeks old. None of her other litter mates were taken to the pound just Georgie. This scared little pup was put in with fighting pit bulls and still bears the scars from her attack. Now I can't prove it but I feel that Georgie's breeder did not want to show her pups with a white one in the litter. I am grateful that she was not put down at birth. I still maintain that as long as the archaic views that White Boxers are not as good or desirable as the others the mistreatment of white boxers will continue.

Before I got my Georgie I did lots of research on white boxers. I wish I still had the links but when I lost the hard drive in my computer I lost all of that. Here is a couple of good ones I found today. http://www.boxerbuddies.org/Boxer%20...ite_boxers.htm
http://www.boxerrescue.com/whiteboxer.htm

Only about 17% of whities are born deaf.

[AussieGirl]

I agree that white boxers should not be purposefully bred to some extent like some of you said, but what if in the litter there is a white boxer who is perfectly healthy?

This is the correspondence between a breeder and Dr George M. Strain.
Dr Strain is one of *the* foremost experts in canine deafness in the world.

For those who can't be bothered to read the whole thing here is a small portion of it.
Question submitted by breeder:

I am interested in knowing if introducing white boxers into the gene pool as breeding specimens can in turn lead to this deafness increasing in coloured boxers, possibly due to the whites passing on a lot of minus modifiers?
One aspect of the "proposal" that I am unclear on is the deafness issue. Is the congenital deafness in boxers limited to whites? If not, could the introduction of whites into the gene pool also introduce the pigment problem in the inner ear to our coloured boxers as well?

Response:

It is my opinion that white boxers carry a version of the regulatory gene that causes over- expression of the piebald gene, producing heavy white color, blue eyes, and deafness. Breeding these dogs back into the boxer gene pool will very likely increase the overall incidence of deafness in ALL boxers (white or otherwise).
If asked, I would be opposed to breeding white boxers -- to either whites or colors. If this practice is continued the prevalence of deafness in all boxers will increase as has happened with other breeds. I know that there is a strong group of advocates for white boxers, mostly because there is always attraction to something novel. To me it seems totally without logic to continue a breeding practice which, based on all available knowledge, will increase the prevalence of hereditary disease in a dog breed.

Breeders are already trying to rid the breed of Cardiomyopathy, Aortic Stenosis and other genetic problems so why on earth would they want to introduce another problem to the breed?

Why someone should not be able to show him? Just because he is white? I also know your response, letting white boxers compete will encourage breeders breeding more white boxers but even this can be controlled by registries like CKC and AKC. CKC and AKC could at least make a separate category for white boxer showing.

Conformation is done to assess breeding stock. It is not to pick the cutest, sweetest, smartest dogs. So there is no reason for white boxers in the conformation ring - they are not breeding stock. I don't mean this to sound rude or offend you but what would it achieve, what is the point? We do things for a reason right? People show their dogs in the conformation ring to see if they are good examples of the breed to use as breeding stock (the reason for conformation ring), whites should not be bred with so what would the reason for showing them in the conformation ring be? I will assume that you will say something like: "to prove they are just as good as any other boxer", I agree they are, but again this should not be done in the conformation ring - they are not breeding stock. Prove that point in obedience or agility, where the main aim isn't assessing suitability as breeding stock. My girl is brindle but even she has no place in the conformation ring and many other coloured boxers who don't meet the breed standard don't either. Whites are able to participate in the obedience ring, and in agility, which would be a great way IMO to show people that they are "all Boxer", intelligent, easy to train, have a great temperament and generally great dogs.

Only about 17% of whities are born deaf.

That really depends on where you are getting the info from and if they used BAER testing.
I have found one that showed 20.67% of white boxers were deaf - without BAER testing. Had BAER testing been done it was estimated (based on research and results from other breeds with the same issue) that the 20.67% figure would doublet o just over 40%

Also:

The cause of the deafness associated with the white colour is the absence of pigment cells in the inner ear resulting in a loss of sensory hair cells at about 6 - 8 weeks of age.

[Boxer100]

Originally Posted by AussieGirl

That really depends on where you are getting the info from and if they used BAER testing.
I have found one that showed 20.67% of white boxers were deaf - without BAER testing. Had BAER testing been done it was estimated (based on research and results from other breeds with the same issue) that the 20.67% figure would doublet o just over 40%

Whatever the case might be, nobody should be killing white boxers nor should they dump them at the shelters to make their litter "look better". I found out that 25% of boxers born are white, so they are not rare or anything. It happens even when you breed flashy fawn or brindle boxers so there will always be white boxers whether some people like them or not. The only way to stop white boxers from being born is to breed pure brindle and pure fawn boxers that lack the white gene. That right now is pretty much impossible. I believe that some people's negative perception of white boxers leads to their killings and mistreatment just because they are considered inferior to other colored boxers. Breeders have been killing them in the past just to sell their other puppies faster and please their customers who may be unaware that white boxers can be and are just as healthy as any other colored boxer.

I see more and more people in my area with white boxers so it is a good start. I own a perfectly healthy white boxer that was tested for deafness and blindness when he was a puppy. Our neighbor owned a fawn and a brindle boxer and after seeing our white boxer, she could not resist but go and adopt one. Now she has 3 boxers - one of each color.

[Boxerdad]

Originally Posted by maggiemae

Hope I did this right, if you see no picture, I didn't!

It would be great to see more pictures of your dog. I have never seen that combination until today lol. I have a friend that has a "blue" boxer. I will see if I can get her to register here and post some pics.

[Spyglass Sally]

I know nothing about this so I won't try to speak about it. But I do want to say that I really appreciate the discussion and find it very informative and interesting.

Don't 'cha just love the discussions on BoxerHub?

[bruinsBoxers]

The hard decision to make is when you have a litter of 3 . 2 colored ( 1 fawn & 1 brindle ) and 1 white .

All are tested for DM . Only the white is clear ( negative ) the two colored are at risk ( affected -and will pass along the genes for DM)

The white is BAER tested and is hearing in both ears .

Then you have an ascultation the white and fawn have no murmur but the brindle had a significant murmur (3 or above ) and is considered suspect for SAS/AS . Which definately eliminates him from breeding .

You run the arvc test and the white comes back negative both colored come back as +homo (affected) and will pass the gene along .

Do you throw out the white just because of his coat color even though his health testing is great ?
We are in such a hard place right now with all the testing we should be doing to produce healthy boxers ( of any color ). We have to choose whether we breed a dog who is DM positive , arvc + hetero and hope for the best as there are no guarantees ow the genes will be distributed .
I feel it is a shame to not be able to use a health cleared white sparingly to help eliminate the other deadly diseases the breed faces .