Color that is more appealing in the Show Ring?

[AussieGirl]

Even the top researchers suggest to not S/N every dog that tests as a DM carrier or at risk , that alone is estimated to be 80% of the boxer population. And the same with ARVC + hetero dogs , to even use +homo dogs ( only to arvc - ) sparingly if they have many outstanding qualities the we must keep in the gene pool .

DM not S/N every dog I agree with as, Clear + At Risk = Carrier - breed that with a Clear = 50% Carrier & 50% Clear.

but your scenario included a DM At Risk that also had an ARVC +homo

Positive Homozygous (2 copies of the mutated gene) We recommend not breeding the homozygous dogs. Dogs that are
homozygous for the mutation appear to have more significant disease and will certainly pass on the mutation.

that is the recommendation by the Veterinary Cardiac Genetics Laboratory

Maybe I am just misunderstanding this?

I do want to acknowledge that yes breeders put huge amounts of time, energy and money into what they do, they also have a very difficult task of trying to "balance" all of the issues that arise when trying to find a good breeding match. Often times it doesn't get much appreciation or thanks either

Breeding 2 flashy boxers unethical .

I just found it interesting and good to see that many options are being explored whats that saying "don't put all your cookies in the one basket" or something like that. Also I think they are probably feeling the same way about the discussions on breeding with whites as some do about their discussion , but at the end of the day the more avenues like both of these that are explored and researched the better educated and perhaps more options breeders will have.

[bruinsBoxers]

Quote:
Positive Homozygous (2 copies of the mutated gene) We recommend not breeding the homozygous dogs. Dogs that are
homozygous for the mutation appear to have more significant disease and will certainly pass on the mutation.

that is the recommendation by the Veterinary Cardiac Genetics Laboratory

The cardiologist who found and developed the test for the one gene known so far connected to arvc says this .

Positive Heterozygous (1 copy of the mutated gene and 1 copy of a normal gene) Dogs that are positive heterozygous should be carefully evaluated for signs of disease (Holter monitor and possibly an echocardiogram). If an arrhythmia is detected, possible treatment options should be discussed with your veterinarian. Adult dogs that do not show signs of disease and that have other positive attributes could be bred to mutation negative dogs. Puppies may be screened for the mutation and over a few generations, mutation negative puppies may be selected to replace the mutation positive parent and gradually decrease the number of mutation positive dogs in the population.

Positive Homozygous (2 copies of the mutated gene) We recommend not breeding the homozygous dogs unless they are exceptional members of the Boxer community and we need to be sure to maintain their positive attrtibutes in the breed. Dogs that are homozygous for the mutation appear to have more significant disease and will certainly pass on the mutation therefore they should only be bred to a negative dog and over 2 generations of negative crosses a negative puppy could be selected as a replacement.

[AussieGirl]

Yes I have read articles about research and seminars by Dr Kate Meurs.

Positive Heterozygous (1 copy of the mutated gene and 1 copy of a normal gene) Dogs that are positive heterozygous should be carefully evaluated for signs of disease (Holter monitor and possibly an echocardiogram). If an arrhythmia is detected, possible treatment options should be discussed with your veterinarian. Adult dogs that do not show signs of disease and that have other positive attributes could be bred to mutation negative dogs. Puppies may be screened for the mutation and over a few generations, mutation negative puppies may be selected to replace the mutation positive parent and gradually decrease the number of mutation positive dogs in the population.

Positive Homozygous (2 copies of the mutated gene) We recommend not breeding the homozygous dogs unless they are exceptional members of the Boxer community and we need to be sure to maintain their positive attrtibutes in the breed. Dogs that are homozygous for the mutation appear to have more significant disease and will certainly pass on the mutation therefore they should only be bred to a negative dog and over 2 generations of negative crosses a negative puppy could be selected as a replacement.

Your scenario stated there were three pups in a litter - period. Never stated that all or even one of them was an exceptional example of the breed. Which kinda annoyed me (truth be told) just sounded like the old (for lack of better description) "making the best of a bad lot", you know those that will breed a mediocre pup with not so great health test results because that was all they had to choose from and they wanted to add another dog to their "breeding program" - right or wrong I am a believer of sometimes we should remember that "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" sometimes they should "pass" in situations like that. But yeah I agree you guys have a hard job doing the "balancing act". But in that case there were three mediocre ( I assumed anyway as it wasn't stated otherwise) pups with health issues or unable to be bred. I can see that if the DM At Risk that also had an ARVC +homo been exceptional in other ways and it was possible to "balance" it off with suitable a DM Clear and arvc - partner that some would do it - correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be hard to find a match like that?. But even Dr Meurs states that a + homo shouldn't be bred

unless they are exceptional members of the Boxer community and we need to be sure to maintain their positive attrtibutes in the breed

Not meaning that to offend you at all, I can see you are trying to show me where you are coming from and I am just trying to do the same

[Boxerdad]

It's just horrible to think they would kill a new born puppy because it has the wrong color. Why not sell with the a contract that they must be neutered or spayed. I bet they would find families willing to do that.

[Boxer100]

Originally Posted by Boxerdad

It's just horrible to think they would kill a new born puppy because it has the wrong color. Why not sell with the a contract that they must be neutered or spayed. I bet they would find families willing to do that.

Yes, it is horrible. However, they don't do it anymore as most people will buy white boxers and are more educated now about the different myths about white boxers. Before there was the Internet, it was harder for people to share information and now when most people have access to the Internet they can find useful information on white boxers on hundreds of websites than debunk the myths.

[Enocebox]

I don't like excessive flash n-----ot so much to do with looks ( all Boxers are beautiful of course!).... we are more concerned about the health implications, and the hypocrisy associated with intentionally producing white puppies to breed a show winner.

[Marylou Mader]

Originally Posted by Enocebox

I don't like excessive flash n-----ot so much to do with looks ( all Boxers are beautiful of course!).... we are more concerned about the health implications, and the hypocrisy associated with intentionally producing white puppies to breed a show winner.

I'm glad you responded to this thread, as it was run before I became a member.

Bear in mind that the Boxer Club has designed and modified a standard for the breed. This standard has been modified about 8 times over the course of induction into the AKC, prior to that the breed was judged by what the Germans put together.

I think health is always an issue with breeding, color by itself is not a factor. We now have DNA bio-markers to work with like the DM and the Ventricular disease.

I was pleased that in 2005 they modified the standard to include the EAR. I love the look of the crop, but having been through it twice, I opted to leave my new puppies ears on.

As far as color in the ring, judges are humans, and I have seen many judges prefer specific color, as I also show Dachshunds, which have colors. I would have to hope the judge is looking for the best to conform to the standard, but not all judges interpret the standard the same way. After all, they are human.

When we show our dogs, we are simply asking for an opinion. Sometimes it works for us and sometimes it doesn't...