Electronic training devices

[Spyglass Sally]

I realize this is going to be controversial, but I’m going to jump in anyway. First off let me say that I’m not advocating using electronic correction instead of positive correction, patience, exercise, love, etc. But I am saying that sometimes, with some dogs, those things are not enough.

You all know I love Buddy and have spent countless hours training him. We have also worked with an animal behaviorist since he was only a few months old. I have been elated to see the power of using the exercise, discipline, affection model in transforming bad behavior. I have been very impressed with what he’ll do for a little treat, how well a bone distracts him and how much power a tin can with pennies has. But….

Sometimes it hasn’t been enough. We were having a problem with him barking when we went away. We set up a camera and found him tearing up the house and barking. We worked on teaching him to be crated and behave, but the barking kept up. We live in a condo and that’s a sure way to alienate your neighbors. Finally our behaviorist recommended a bark collar. The one he recommended starts off with a very gentle correction and gradually increases if the dog persists in barking. So Buddy is in total control of this. The first two times he tested it out and then he stopped barking. He’d go in his cage, eat his Kong and bones and then nap in the sun until we returned. After about a month of him not even testing it, we stopped using it and told our neighbors to let us know if they heard him barking again. They've never complained.

The other thing we’ve used, again with our behaviorist’s direction and training, is an EC collar. I was having a problem when I took Buddy for walks where he would get very aggressive toward kids, dogs, golf carts – basically anything he felt like. I had tried a prong training collar and the tin can of pennies, but it wasn’t adequate. Our neighbors were rightfully looking afraid at Buddy when he’d start up barking at them and pulling on the leash. The EC collar our behaviorist recommended has a number of increments, in half steps, and once again, it took very little correction for Buddy to understand and behave. Now he walks just fine and actually goes up to other dogs and kids and enjoys them.

I know some folks absolutely think this is wrong and other methods will always work. If that’s been their experience, I’m truly happy for them. But for us, it was only the case about 95% of the time. The other time we needed something else. These are not cruel devices. Buddy is in total control of if they are even used and if you saw him when he got a correction from, say the EC collar, you wouldn’t even know it happened. There’s no jerk or yelp because he doesn’t need it. A very gentle correction that is not even visible to anyone else lets him know to stop and he does – he knows it can escalate and he doesn’t want that. Again, he rarely even needs it at all anymore.

Before anyone says they think this is cruel let me ask if they think putting a dog in a rescue shelter is cruel. Because sometimes that is the next step. If it’s not been your experience, again, I’m very happy for you. But I’m home with Buddy all the time and have put tons of time into training him, plus about $1000 in fees for our behaviorist, and still this is what was required to break him of two habits that would have jeopardized his ability to stay with us. Now he’s very happy and loves going for walks with us, playing on the beach, etc. The neighbors now love him. I believe these devices have enabled him to get past his own fears and enjoy his surroundings. They may also have ended up saving his life.

I felt like I needed to say this because I think sometimes people are struggling and may not feel like this is an option or if they do it, it means they are not really trying other methods hard enough. Others may disagree, but I think sometimes, some dogs, need these training devices.

Here's Buddy last week, doing what he could never have done before - playing off leash on the beach where we live. He's happy and so are we.

Buddy 013 small.jpg

[AussieGirl]

Firstly Sally I want to say that I am glad you feel comfortable enough on the forum and with it's members that you can address this topic - one that can often get owners very passionate.
I think it is very similar to the spanking debate with children, I will not pass my judgment on anyone who spanks their children (I want to clarify I mean spank - a swat on the butt, not abuse) and I will not pass judgement on anyone who uses devices like the ones you have described providing they are used properly, after other avenues have been tried and not in a way that will injure an animal. You have worked very hard with Buddy and put many hours and dollars into it I think we can all see that in your posts.
Thank you for being brave enough to talk about this topic, because whether someone agrees with it or not there are people that use them and I personally would rather see a post explaining the proper use of them and stressing that it is something you try AFTER all else fails - which is what I feel you have done , than just thinking of them as a quick fix and a cheaper alternative to a trainer/behaviorist.

[KeeperBoy]

What Aussiegirl said I wouldn't use one on either of my dogs, but maybe one day we will own a dog that I would be comfortable using one with.

[whitedaisy]

I don't even know what an EC collar is, but as for the shock collar, well... I've never used one, I hope I never need to. I think used CORRECTLY it is a good tool. It does scare me half to death because I don't believe most people know how to use it correctly.
What it boils down to is these are tools. You use the tools you need, when you need to and it is your job to make sure you're using it safely.

[Ruby Red]

Wow, didn’t know you had so many problems with BUDDY – poor you! I kind of have mixed opinions on the use of EC. One of the dogs I took from rescue was a complete ‘nut case’ – similar to Buddy - I found a very good behaviourist [in the end] and used a halti head harness so I could hold him physically and a treat/reward in order to change his perception of what he thought was ‘bad’ - it took me nearly 2 years to sort him out though.

There is a really good book called ‘Click to Calm’ by Emma Parsons, it looks at ways you can use a clicker when dealing with aggression in dogs [just putting it out for any readers who may be dealing with this problem and are looking for ideas on what to do].

At the moment, EC collars are easily available in this country and there is quite an outcry about it all with many animal groups petitioning the government to try and get their use banned. I do feel there should be some sort of legislation regarding their use – I think they are too easily available and that too many people use them without knowing how or when to use them properly [not in your case obviously], or use them in situations when positive methods could be used instead.

I’m so glad that it worked out for you and Buddy, the picture says it all!